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Important Changes to Induction & Member Promotions (1 Viewer)

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#1
Why we're doing this:
  • The induction & promotion process has been a central feature of our community since day 1. By only passing drivers who exceed our minimum driving standards, we have built a reputation for providing clean & respectful racing for all.
  • With the recent expansion of running regular events in different games, we want to maintain this reputation. However, running separate induction sessions for Project CARS, Assetto Corsa, or any other new additions is just not practical. It will also be unfair to ask applicants to purchase a new game just for induction, if we continue to assess applicants using Project CARS 2. The current model is no longer fit for purpose.
  • A new approach is needed. One that will work for all platforms, but will still achieve the balancing act of providing accessibility & sportsmanship.

TL;DR:
  • Applicant Status & traditional Induction sessions are gone.
  • New members will be put on Probation status.
  • Probationers will have access to a variety of our usual events across all platforms.
  • During the probation period, any offences commited by a probationer will incur 2-3 times the number of penalty points of a full member.
  • Each month the staff will review Probation members, and will promote to full member those who show the continued good conduct on and off track.

License Eligibility for Events:

  • As before, Probationers can race at fun/sprint nights; community events (at organizer's choice); standalone/ranked events; and mini-leagues.
  • Probationers are now no longer eligible to race in our larger and prestigious events (Official Championships, Endurance Races or Special Events). Be aware there may be exceptions to certain leagues or events, in certain circumstances.
  • Only members invited by staff/ organizers can drive in official RSR teams in external events - anyone, however, can enter their own team with our support (resources, advice, practice sessions).

Penalty Points & Promotion:
  • Drivers on Probation will be punished by the stewards more harshly for misdemeanours than full members. In cases where penalty points are assigned to a driver, those on Probation will receive 2-3 times than usual. For example, causing a collision and failing to return position could net you 6-9 points, which is well on your way to the maximum limit.
  • Just like before, the staff will decide who will be promoted from probation to full membership. Driving standards are only 1 criteria considered by the staff in their judgements. Conduct on team speak & the forum are equally important.
  • Also like before, full members are also subject to a demotion to Probation status, should they reach the penalty point limit or other exceptional circumstances.


@Members, if you have any questions and/or feedback feel free to ask them right below!

Your RSR Staff Team
 

aed3810

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#2
Will there be events in place of the induction evenings? I was looking forward to joining you all for some no pressure racing on Tuesday for it.
 

t0daY

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#3
Will there be events in place of the induction evenings? I was looking forward to joining you all for some no pressure racing on Tuesday for it.
There will be no more Inductions, all events are now open from the beginning to everyone :) Next event in Project CARS 2 will be Throwback Thursday Revisited.
 

aed3810

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#4
Oh ok, thank you for the information, very much appreciate it.
 

t0daY

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#5
Oh ok, thank you for the information, very much appreciate it.
If you have time, just re-log quickly into our forum again, you will be assigned then the Probationer status :)
 

aed3810

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#6
If you have time, just re-log quickly into our forum again, you will be assigned then the Probationer status :)
Thank you, I have logged out and then back in on rsr.com so hopefully that’s done the trick.
 

Jamesl91

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#7
Will there be events in place of the induction evenings? I was looking forward to joining you all for some no pressure racing on Tuesday for it.
Feel free to Join teamspeak and get to know others, we are always happy to chat :)
 

UnstopaPaul

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#9
I've got to say I have some concerns on this approach it will be interesting to see whether it results in improved standards.

RSR Induction night was the reason I turned up a second time. As a complete novice, the "training wheels" atmosphere was what I needed to turn up at all. Being able to ask "stupid questions" and make mistakes on the practice ground without fear of ruining a championship front-runners race helped me overcome my nerves/fear of involving myself in a racing club. It allowed me multiple practice starts (with real people) and multiple races (with real people). I can't imagine doing my first ranked race rolling start without the multiple Tuesday night sessions backing it up. It was still my go to if I wanted to practice something like "situational awareness". I'll be sad to see it gone.I appreciate things can be slightly different when you are bringing on a clearly more experienced racer, but experienced doesn't always mean well-behaved. Induction set the tone for how admins engaged with the community, how you were expected to behave and probably also found you your first friends (quite possibly because you wiped them out at druids ;) ).

Some practical questions:

What will happen to the current license system, as its entirely out of date now? (side note, might be worth a link to license system in the "Learn More" category, I had to track it down). 5.1, 5.2 are irrelevant, 5.3 is mostly irrelevant, to the point where there appear to be no consequences of the license system other than "the admins will consider your position at RSR". The main punishment of the current license system was the Sim Racing equivalent of the "speed awareness course". This is now gone.

Why are senior, more experienced members punished less for their mistakes? For example, iRacing's safety rating system is based on a reduced number of incidents, not allowing more of them. Inexperienced people are very likely to rack up points, even with good intentions, which could make it a less welcoming experience if you rack up 9 points in your first outing.

What happens when eventually "that guy" turns up and decides their first ever race is going to be revolution cup Season 6 race 1? There have on occasion been people in past inductions that clearly were not safe to race at that time, and needed more time on track with real people. There doesn't seem to be a way to catch them, unless the plan maybe is to run more "fun/sprint nights"?

Sorry if these questions sound to be challenging, I just would like to understand how the new system will work.

EDIT: PS: Some of the current license points are ready to roll off now.
 

awittyusername

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#10
@UnstopaPaul you've pretty much echoed all my main concerns as an absolute rookie who literally just joined a couple days ago. It's a daunting prospect now, to have to find races to learn the ropes that will have consequences for other people rather than just me, languishing in the Tuesday night sessions for a month or more.

The induction process was what attracted me to RSR in the first instance.

This is by no means me saying I'm done with it, I will continue under the new regs. However, I'm an order of magnitude more nervous about getting in now.
 

Taorminator

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#11
Even though I understand the reasons behind this decision I have to join @UnstopaPaul on this. I think it really was an added value to the community, you were just not a newcomer, you were assessed but most importantely mentored by the induction managers. I will always remember my 1st induction, my heart was racing I was really nervous and after that the managers took me in private and just asked "what did you think of tonight ? Did you have fun? Do you think you re gonna come back?". And with this approach I knew I arrived at the place I was looking for. First badge felt like an achievement and the first ranked race as well. You can learn and make mistakes without consequence which was great. Green badges kept coming for the fun of these nights but also did a good job welcoming new comers. I know not many people turn out these days but may I suggest that depending on the inductees favorite game, you would adapt and run inductions on a given game one week and on another game the next if there is a demand for it?
 

steveg200

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#12
Totally agree with the comments above , i think getting rid of the induction process will be a disaster . When I joined RSR a long time ago the induction process was a way to learn race craft without impacting on others in a ranked race. If it is quantity over quality RSR is wanting then so be it .
 
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kobusnell

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#13
My induction happened this year, April. So I'm relatively new, but I'd like to give feedback on how I experienced induction and the value of it.

Our inductions were handled very professionally in an inviting and friendly manner. @Battenberg was in charge with some other admins joining. The induction was
  • A brilliant introduction to organised racing, my first time experiencing it.
  • A brilliant introduction to RSR, which highlighted the focus on community and overall fun and respect above pure speed and competitiveness.
  • an RSR introduction to TeamSpeak etiquette, including by those members who are not part of the induction team.
  • my first time doing a rolling start (see first point) which was nerve wracking. I wanted to take part in future inductions to practice leading the field in a rolling start, as I've been very close to finishing 10th in an event where the following grid is top 10 reversed. Sure, it shouldn't be that hard, but induction gives you that confidence to consider finishing 10th and not sacrificing a position on purpose.
  • a general confidence building exercise. Imagine taking part in a ranked race with that being your first event. I would have chickened out..
There were some definite bumper car fans who aren't a part of events today. I can imagine races getting very unpleasant if those drivers are allowed to attend without any form of induction.
I'd think having induction in both PC2 and AC would be possible. If man power is a problem, why not consider creating an induction team like the stewards? I think there should be many members who would make themselves availablefor the health of the community.

In conclusion, I feel induction is a necessary part of the RSR community and experience. Even though it can appear like a barrier, it should be seen as a gate. The gatekeepers make it clear that you are invited, but civility and respect will be shown to you, and we ask that you merely reciprocate.
 
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t0daY

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#14
Will try to answer all questions I can see:

What will happen to the current license system, as its entirely out of date now?
We will adjust slightly the license system today, at latest tomorrow. Then everything should fit again.

Why are senior, more experienced members punished less for their mistakes?
They are not getting punished less, the "others" will be punished more. In this particular setup we can punish earlier troublemaker and act within our system.

What happens when eventually "that guy" turns up and decides their first ever race is going to be revolution cup Season 6 race 1?
Depends what "that guy" is doing probably his last race as well. There will be an upcoming season very soon (can't say which game :p). Depends how it is working out there we will adjust from there.

Green badges kept coming for the fun of these nights but also did a good job welcoming new comers. I know not many people turn out these days...
That was one reason we want to stop the Induction process for now. In the last 4-6 weeks we had maybe an average participation of 5 or less (with Staff included). In our opinion you cant assess new people in a field of 4 cars. Therefore we want to let people drive in bigger grids (events or even leagues) and act from there.

If it is quantity over quality RSR is wanting then so be it.
I was truly awaiting a comment from you Steve, because I knew personally you would not like it at all. But this step was not made to rise our numbers. But we can't and don't want to do Inductions in 3 different games. We hope with the new system we can integrate new people faster in our community and at the same time filter out troublemakers at the same speed.

Also your comment would imply that every community which does not have an Induction (or anything similar) has no quality in racing? Or is going for quantity over quality?

In conclusion, I feel induction is a necessary part of the RSR community and experience. Even though it can appear like a barrier, it should be seen as a gate. The gatekeepers make it clear that you are invited, but civility and respect will be shown to you, and we ask that you merely reciprocate.
I am with you here, that was always our intention and I am glad that you took the way we meant it. But sometimes change is required and we would like to test it out. If everything goes completely sideways there is always a step back. But for now we stick with what we have :)
 

steveg200

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#15
Also your comment would imply that every community which does not have an Induction (or anything similar) has no quality in racing? Or is going for quantity over quality?
In nearly every type of racing Manu a licence is required to show you are up to a certain standard and are not going to be a hazard to other drivers . Our licence system at RSR was passing the induction process which has worked pretty well so far.So you are saying that anybody can join and race in a ranked event and cause havoc by unsafe driving and at worst they will get banned .what about the other poor drivers who have had there race or championship ruined by this driver or drivers.
 

t0daY

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In nearly every type of racing Manu a licence is required to show you are up to a certain standard and are not going to be a hazard to other drivers . Our licence system at RSR was passing the induction process which has worked pretty well so far.So you are saying that anybody can join and race in a ranked event and cause havoc by unsafe driving and at worst they will get banned .what about the other poor drivers who have had there race or championship ruined by this driver or drivers.
I ruined @Puffpirat championship last season. It is what it is Steve. That's racing, in RL and virtually.
 

t0daY

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#17
After some talks with @Members we are ready to adjust certain stuff slightly. Here are the updated bits:

License Eligibility for Events:

  • Probationers are now no longer eligible to race in our larger and prestigious events (Official Championships, Endurance Races or Special Events). Be aware there may be exceptions to certain leagues or events, in certain circumstances.
 

aed3810

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#18
Makes sense. Good call.
 

drukqs

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#19
All i want are more races and more participation, if this will help to that, then im fine with it.

I'm finding that lately we have less events (not a lot just a bit less) but definitely much less participation...particularly in the only game I play and the reason i joined RSR in the first place: Project Cars 2. And that worries me a bit...but thats perhaps a discussion for another day.
 

Owfier

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#20
After some talks with @Members we are ready to adjust certain stuff slightly. Here are the updated bits:

License Eligibility for Events:

  • Probationers are now no longer eligible to race in our larger and prestigious events (Official Championships, Endurance Races or Special Events). Be aware there may be exceptions to certain leagues or events, in certain circumstances.
I got a question about the "not allowed to join in endurance races" and the exceptions.

Say I would like to join the 2,4 h of spa on PC2 like I did last time around. Am I allowed to do this because I participated last time and I didn't cause any accident or problem for anybody, even though I am not the right rank?
 

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