Project CARS 2 Gearbox..changing down (1 Viewer)

[Feynman]

Does anyone know if / when the gbox issues (discussed at length on official forum) is likely to be “patched”.
My main issue is with downshifting in some cars (ginneta gt4) and find the biggest problem going from 3rd to 2nd. It is the case that the delay is due to excessive rpm / roadspeed before you can “get” the gear you want. I realise SMS wanted to put a stop to the rapid, unrealistic downshifting that was taking place in Pcars , but I think on some cars they have moved too far the other way.
Anyway....any info on this?

 

[Invincible]

Currently, it is working as intended. Because it only prevents you from downshifting if you would bang the rev limiter in the lower gear.
According to a post from Casey Ringley

OK that does sound like something in the system is not working as designed. What it should be doing is simple:

Shift request comes in
Look at what the engine rpm would be if the shift is successful at that instant
If engine rpm > threshold, reject the shift request

Clutch input and even current engine rpm shouldn't be a factor in the equation. The threshold right now is set at the rev limit rpm, but I think it would be a good idea to increase this to maybe 110% of rev limit.

H-pattern manuals leave you on your own. Nothing there to stop you slamming it into any gear at speed.

This is only for modern sequential gearboxes where electronic protection like this does exist.

on the official forum, they might add a bit of leeway, but I wouldn't count on it.
The system isn't set up per car though. The bigger the possible top speed drop is from 3rd to 2nd, the later you can shift. But that's not going to change much, even if they let you shift into a "wee-bit above rev-limiter" region*.

* Imho, 110% is already too much and likely to re-introduce maschine-gun shifting. 105% should be plenty (would still be 350 rpm on a 7000 rpm car).

 

[Gxbbs]

Just imagine you have paid lots of money for this car and if you break the engine it’s going to cost you lots more money which you don’t have, so this downshift protection is basically a lock for your bank account to stop spending money you don’t need to. I have spoken to a lot of people about this and honestly the down shift protection is pretty much spot on. Some cars may be a bit too high but I feel people got too used to pcars 1 and now pcars 2 is more realistic they think this isn’t meant to happen, when it is.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Just imagine you have paid lots of money for this car and if you break the engine it’s going to cost you lots more money which you don’t have, so this downshift protection is basically a lock for your bank account to stop spending money you don’t need to. I have spoken to a lot of people about this and honestly the down shift protection is pretty much spot on. Some cars may be a bit too high but I feel people got too used to pcars 1 and now pcars 2 is more realistic they think this isn’t meant to happen, when it is.

I'm pretty sure that in real life the team could adjust it for you ...
Anyways, imo in the Porsche GT4 it is overdone ... 3rd to 2nd and you can shift only when you are well below the limiter
Not to mention that they implemented it also on some cars which shouldn't have it ...

 

[Gxbbs]

Not to mention that they implemented it also on some cars which shouldn't have it ...

Which are?

 

[Feynman]

Well....the limit on the GInetta gt4 hurts and a few other people say the same...you ARE waiting before you can change, even when it feel right to select 2nd, the delay is too much. A little engine braking is normal in most vehicles and my experience with the Ginetta GT4 suggests SMS have got it a wee bit wrong with that car..

Guess what...I’ve driven GInetta at Brands though not the full Gt4 spec. Of course I was not at race pace but Druid and the downhill corner after it can be taken in 2nd.
I am hoping to have another track day in November so I plan to ask around. I don’t think it’s realistic...truthfully...it’s not far off...but it’s enough to spoil my favourite car...This downshift projection was a late change to the game from what I’ve heard, so I’m not surprised it’s not been implemented correctly in every car.

 

[Feynman]

Just to be clear it was a G40 I drove and not the G55 Gt4....Not quite the same thing I admit.
Mr Bell did say the downshift protection was to be looked at again in some cars...was just hoping it might be the Ginneta

 

[Laiders]

I find no issue with the gear shifting, I still found I could shift a bit too early accidentally in the Cayman and get it locking up, not quite sure how some people are trying to drive the car!

I think you guys would have a very expensive engine bill in real life!

@Feynman if you are exceeding the maximum engine speed on downshifts be very careful, a lot of hire cars have tell tales and clauses where you get the bill for the pile on engine components if you over rev it... To be honest unless you were running at race pace I doubt you would have been downshifting anything like as aggressively as you think it may have felt, if there was an instructor beside you then no way would you be doing this.

The other important thing with all this downshifting is how it upsets the balance of the car, the brakes are what do the stopping and should be reasonably well balanced, being in the right gear is most important for when you need to feed the power in, hence the heel and toeing to keep the inputs as smooth as possible and prevent the balance changing. If you're having to use the engine to balance the brakes then you probably need to adjust the brake balance or work on appropriate lines for weight transfer, braking deeper into the corner to make the car rotate or get off the brakes early to stop it over rotating. The days of racing cars needing engine braking to conserve the brakes is long gone in modern GT cars.

Someone who seems to know what they're doing racing a GT4 hard, note only the first green shift light comes on.

A very quickly driven Morgan, with a similar 3.7L Ford race engine to the GT4 Ginetta...

My go, pushing hard in the dry with standard 3.0L V6, not a pro but class win and fastest lap with the engine still in one piece after 9 seasons... The rev limit is 6500, probably getting to just over 6000 on the down changes.

And for a bit of a difference tip toeing round a wet Cadwell on semi-slicks. It's all about smoothness in these conditions, short shifting and super smooth downshifts to keep the car pointing in the right direction. The cars I'm passing In the first few laps have +100bhp, slightly bigger tyres and less weight, but they're much harder to drive smoothly and extract the potential grip in those conditions.

 

[w0rthy]

Not every car has this issue, but there are definitely quite a few that do. The downshift protection in certain cars will not let you shift until the RPMs are immensely lower than they should be (sometimes nearly half of the rev limit ex. 4000RPM/8000RPM). That pcars forum post brought up was a response to a thread I made on the subject. If you want to try yourself, try downshifting in the TS040.

 

[Feynman]

All I’ll say is.....I stand by my observations / comments. I’m not interested in lectures showing how I should drive and mechanical sympathy / engine bills for damage etc.
The point is SMS “coded” an artificial restriction into cars to stop people changing down at an unrealistic rate and shortening braking distances and allowing a faster corner entry.
If they were to get it spot on for every car that would be astounding..it’s accepted some cars need to be looked at again.
The GInneta Gt4 issue is marginal, but my belief is it’s not 100% accurate and a few people who also race this car (in game) agree. I would need to double check but from the single player,I think the group A BMW will allow you to change down ..too early....

I raced motorcycles for 15 years and I can tell you I had no costly gbox bills, despite the fact that there was always some engine braking especially in slower corners.

Should mention , in game I’m not using H shifter.

 

[Laiders]

@Feynman had a go in the GT4 at Brands, first time trying the car in Pcars2. Must say it is great to drive on the stable default set, don't know what they were thinking making the loose the default, certainly not how I would choose to set the car up and barely driveable for a novice...

I found that I could get second gear without issue at Druids and also Graham Hill (although there is no point at Graham Hill as it hits the rev limiter very quickly and is slower/less well flowing overall). I could shift consistently with the orange lights on the wheel coming on (the final shift light just before limiter in Ginetta GT4), this seems fine to me, personally I wouldn't do this in a real car and don't think there is any laptime benefit compared to downshifting fractionally later (as the guy is doing in the video of the Silverstone race).

Is this the behaviour you get, orange lights on every downshift?

One thing I did note following your ghost is you brake later and go into Druids deeper than I do, I make a lot of time up on you here. In cars a slow apex speed for a shorter period of time before getting back on the power is usually faster, I believe bikes may require a different approach in this regard. Maybe this difference in approach is why the car isn't ready for a downshift because your too fast too deep compared to real life.

I found this video very helpful for finding time at Brands in real life, works well in sim too.

 

[Feynman]

Thanks for your observations. Brands is a track I always struggle with, more so in pcars2 than Pcars1..As for druids, it’s not a big issue there. Graham hill bend I’ve tried 3rd but the rpm drops a bit too much so I want second. It may be that I brake too late and deep , and as a consequence maybe I lose some momentum....interesting..I need to look at that..Racing bikes does have an adverse effect on my driving even after all the years...I will say , two of my friends also find this corner a bit of an issue with the current gbox “safety” enhancement .

I do still think the “window” for selecting a gear ( 3rd to 2nd) is too narrow and critical with the current arrangement.

 

[Feynman]

Thank you Laiders for your advice / help with Ginneta at Brands. .I have to admit I had not done many laps and suspect I was in Pcars1 mode. Modified my driving a little and have gained just over half a second to match your time.

I rarely use a ghost when I’m doing a TT as I find it a bit too much of a distraction especially when it’s close. I did use yours and I could see I was losing at Graham Hill bend. Bit more time to be gained around Brands I think