Project CARS 2 Question Thread (1 Viewer)

miagi

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Absolutely understand that, but I would expect most cars in the game, including 90s TC/DTM cars to not feel like they are either steering from the rear of the car, or pivoting from the centre of the car. Even when the car is up to temperature I feel I have to tip toe around every corner for fear of it oversteering. I've followed loads of guides on setting up the cars and nothing seems to make any difference.

Take a GT3 car, the 488 for example. In PC2 I'm about 10 seconds a lap slower than I am with ACC in the same car and track. In ACC the car feels balanced, I can tell when the tyres are on the limit. In PC2, it feels like I'm on ice, and the car wants to oversteer in every corner. On entry, mid corner, and exit.

There is one caveat here. I'm c*#p ;)
I feel pretty much the exact opposite. You need to understand that the limit in PC2 is a territory where you can jugglery the car, that is what the highest level of driving pleasure is all about and why it fascinates ppl since a gentlemen survived the first drift. In ACC the limit (particular when it comes to yaw rate resp. acceleration) is a numb feel in the steering wheel where you are given no information or clue what you may or should do and usual if you still try to push you get a tank slapper. In PC2 especially the old DTM cars, handing in sideways thru the corner is something the game response to properly and keeps giving you information and reacts to inputs. Yes the car wants to go sideways and all you need to do is keep calm and explore the limit that is an area. PC2 rather has the problem that the throttle response on yaw movement is too small. And that higher side slip angles create too little rolling resistance, so driving very aggressive is nearly always quicker. Something you don't like to do from what I hear.
In ACC the limit is too often a thin linie and balancing on it is only possible to a very certain yaw rate or yaw acceleration value, what can even feel like an arcade number game. In the sense that if you stay below everything is normal and boring, if you're about it doesn't get exciting, it just gets tits up directly with very little in between. I would understand that someone that keeps the slide slip angle as low as possible is much more comfy with ACC but ACC physics lack something that PC2 tire model has, not the other way around.

In other words ACC is a stable deep frozen meal with rarely a piece of gristle in there. While PC2 when the parameters all line up and the tire heating model isn't shitting the bed, is like a gourmet fish and all the fishbones already taken out for you.
 
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hinesy32

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Hmm interesting thoughts @miagi

We both experience the complete opposite in both games. I can feel the tyres load up in ACC through my wheel, whereas with PC2, I have no feeling until the car has gone passed the limit of grip. The steering feels so vague in the centre. For example, if I perform a similar maneuver to warming up the tyres - slow speed, large smooth steering inputs - I can feel the tyres in ACC/AC. In PC2, I feel absolutely nothing. Even if I turn the FFB gain to the maximum.

I'm getting used to the DTM car, I fully understand it is old school and is driven on the throttle a lot. But somehow, I am 10 seconds slower than most around Bathurst. Coming into Skyline and into the Esses, I have to brake in 2 parts. One at Skyline, then fight the car to straight up down through the Esses. If anyone would be behind me when racing, they would be hitting the back of me, I'm that slow. Then, into the left hander into the chase corner after the long straight the car wants to spin around on exit, even if I go through here so slowly that I would have enough grip in warm tyres for that to physically not happen IRL. And don't get me started on the last and first corners. Kerbs will kill you too, something this game is horrific at simulating. But, I want to keep practising because I like the game and want to get involved in racing. Well, I say racing, I mean going around at the back of the pack :p
 

Michael

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@miagi Aris (Kunos dev) explained a lot about the tires and how they work on a GT3 car in one of his streams. What you describe is exactly the behaviour he elaborates on with regard to slip angle and lateral and longitudinal grip. Seems like ACC is closer to reality there than PC2 :p ;)
 

UnstopaPaul

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@miagi Aris (Kunos dev) explained a lot about the tires and how they work on a GT3 car in one of his streams. What you describe is exactly the behaviour he elaborates on with regard to slip angle and lateral and longitudinal grip. Seems like ACC is closer to reality there than PC2 :p ;)
but you would hope so right, given that it's able to access more processing power for starters, and presumably more "good physics" leaks between dev teams over the course of time as well. I found PC2 much improved with the DD wheel telling me "nope". Really the only only issue I have with PC2 is the death kerbs. I still prefer the physics in iRacing ofc (no idea about new tire model yet though)
 

Taorminator

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I feel pretty much the exact opposite. You need to understand that the limit in PC2 is a territory where you can jugglery the car, that is what the highest level of driving pleasure is all about and why it fascinates ppl since a gentlemen survived the first drift. In ACC the limit (particular when it comes to yaw rate resp. acceleration) is a numb feel in the steering wheel where you are given no information or clue what you may or should do and usual if you still try to push you get a tank slapper. In PC2 especially the old DTM cars, handing in sideways thru the corner is something the game response to properly and keeps giving you information and reacts to inputs. Yes the car wants to go sideways and all you need to do is keep calm and explore the limit that is an area. PC2 rather has the problem that the throttle response on yaw movement is too small. And that higher side slip angles create too little rolling resistance, so driving very aggressive is nearly always quicker. Something you don't like to do from what I hear.
In ACC the limit is too often a thin linie and balancing on it is only possible to a very certain yaw rate or yaw acceleration value, what can even feel like an arcade number game. In the sense that if you stay below everything is normal and boring, if you're about it doesn't get exciting, it just gets tits up directly with very little in between. I would understand that someone that keeps the slide slip angle as low as possible is much more comfy with ACC but ACC physics lack something that PC2 tire model has, not the other way around.

In other words ACC is a stable deep frozen meal with rarely a piece of gristle in there. While PC2 when the parameters all line up and the tire heating model isn't shitting the bed, is like a gourmet fish and all the fishbones already taken out for you.
Is @miagi actually defending pcars 2 physics? Is it April 1st? xD
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Hmm interesting thoughts @miagi

We both experience the complete opposite in both games. I can feel the tyres load up in ACC through my wheel, whereas with PC2, I have no feeling until the car has gone passed the limit of grip. The steering feels so vague in the centre. For example, if I perform a similar maneuver to warming up the tyres - slow speed, large smooth steering inputs - I can feel the tyres in ACC/AC. In PC2, I feel absolutely nothing. Even if I turn the FFB gain to the maximum.

I'm getting used to the DTM car, I fully understand it is old school and is driven on the throttle a lot. But somehow, I am 10 seconds slower than most around Bathurst. Coming into Skyline and into the Esses, I have to brake in 2 parts. One at Skyline, then fight the car to straight up down through the Esses. If anyone would be behind me when racing, they would be hitting the back of me, I'm that slow. Then, into the left hander into the chase corner after the long straight the car wants to spin around on exit, even if I go through here so slowly that I would have enough grip in warm tyres for that to physically not happen IRL. And don't get me started on the last and first corners. Kerbs will kill you too, something this game is horrific at simulating. But, I want to keep practising because I like the game and want to get involved in racing. Well, I say racing, I mean going around at the back of the pack :p
Just so you know, to me tyres and grip feels great for the 2-3 first laps, after that they go up 110°C after Forest and 120°C by the time you exit the Chase. As @miagi said grip feels let's say "unintuitive" once the tyres are above the optimal temperature, you can say bye bye to lateral grip. And even worse the margin between grip to no grip is very thin so the only way is to adapt your driving to nurse the tyre. Personally I have a love/hate relationship with this model, the good thing is it teaches you to listen to grip and adapt your driving based on it but I wish the transition would be more gradual
 
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FuBii

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Just a heads up, best I can currently do around bathurst is a 2.18.6. I could get into the low 17's but my time gets wiped at the top of the hill, i keep drifting slightly on to the grass at the top of the hill exiting the left hander. The moment you touch the gravel trap it kills your time. :banghead:
Sensibly, I think you're looking around the 2.20 mark as a safe race pace for the none aliens...:pompous:
My setup is on TT @Havocc if you want to give it a bash. :cool:
I've admitted defeat also. Having ABS (on low) around this circuit is around 1.6s faster than without it :rolleyes:
 

miagi

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Is @miagi actually defending pcars 2 physics? Is it April 1st? xD
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From the Sims I have tried, PC2 is clearly the most adavanced model but unfortunatly with some badly set parameters and default setups that are not as good as ACC with the little number of cars. Most ppl when they talk about physics they mostly judge the default setup or how parameters are set.
Just so you know, to me tyres and grip feels great for the 2-3 first laps, after that they go up 110°C after Forest and 120°C by the time you exit the Chase. As @miagi said grip feels let's say "unintuitive" once the tyres are above the optimal temperature, you can say bye bye to lateral grip. And even worse the margin between grip to no grip is very thin so the only way is to adapt your driving to nurse the tyre. Personally I have a love/hate relationship with this model, the good thing is it teaches you to listen to grip and adapt your driving based on it but I wish the transition would be more gradual
I had that too in ACC, some time ago when the Ferrari was good, I was driving on Silverstone as fast as the rear tire heat allowed me too. If I pushed harder, rear tire overheated and that meant spinning out with a very digital behavior. Last corner everythign was okay, next corner you say bye bye.
 

Havocc

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Just a heads up, best I can currently do around bathurst is a 2.18.6. I could get into the low 17's but my time gets wiped at the top of the hill, i keep drifting slightly on to the grass at the top of the hill exiting the left hander. The moment you touch the gravel trap it kills your time. :banghead:
Sensibly, I think you're looking around the 2.20 mark as a safe race pace for the none aliens...:pompous:
My setup is on TT @Havocc if you want to give it a bash. :cool:
I've admitted defeat also. Having ABS (on low) around this circuit is around 1.6s faster than without it :rolleyes:
2.24.3 for now :banghead:
Edit: :confused:
bathu.jpg


P.s. no abs
 
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hinesy32

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2:27s for me....
 

FuBii

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you online @hinesy32? as I can send you my updated setup & drive the circuit with you
 

hinesy32

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Not at the moment, thanks very much for the offer! I should be on over the next few days, hopefully catch you on there.
 

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